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Nordanner Kaaring System

Sun Nov 27, 2011, 7:39 AM by BaliroAdmin:iconbaliroadmin:

:bulletyellow: NOTE:
The Kaaring List journal is not a complete list of registered quality blood horses. The Kaaring List is for us admins to update the ID Lists. Horse names are removed from the Kaaring List once the kaaring is noted on the ID lists.

As you read this you’ll notice certain changes have been made and things have been added. Please note: these changes are not retroactive for your kaaring level. This means that if your horse is already registered at a current level it stays that way (they never go down in levels) however you will have to take these changes into consideration for their next level. This means any art done even before the changes will still be held to these rules.

Quality Blood - the credit point system:
Making art and keeping your Nordanner active may earn you the proud title "Quality Blood".
To become Quality Blood, your Nordanner must gain 15 points using the system below:

:bulletpurple: One registration, colored, headshot or full body: 1 point*
Even if it is animated/has a background etc you will only get the points for it as a reference!
*Registration image is needed to gain other points!

:bulletpurple: Uncolored art: 0.5
Includes digital sketches, pencil drawings, charcoal shaded art, uncolored greyscales etc, full body or headshots are the same. (Remember even on uncolored art the markings must at least be sketched in.)

:bulletpurple: Partial body, colored: 0.5
Partial body is anything that does not go to the knee or only shows a portion of the horse. We welcome creativity however please note that just a hoof or eye will no longer count. It either needs to show all 4 feet or extend up to the belly.

:bulletpurple: Full body, colored, no or plain backgrounds: 1 point
In order to count as full body it must go to the knees or past. This applies to chibi as well as non chibi drawings. With plain background we are referring to solid colored backgrounds, abstract texture backgrounds or transparent backgrounds with drop shadows etc. Just sections of blue and green are also considered simple. (And brown and blue, basically just 2 sections of color is considered simple.)

:bulletpurple: Full body, colored, painted backgrounds: 2 points
In order to count as full body it must go to the knees or past. With painted backgrounds we are referring to an actual background created by the artist him/herself, such as showing the horse in the paddock, a riding arena, forest etc.

:bulletpurple: New! Show entries OR training images: +1
By +1 we mean you add it to the base scoring. So full body art show entry with bg is 2 +1 = 3 points. These points do not stack.
For training we ONLY count images where a handler and/or rider is visible, partial body accepted, but must be over 50% visible. We do not accept stick figures or fingers thrown in on the side. And shadow trainers are not allowed either to avoid people using brushes to quickly add training. Anywhere you do not see handler/rider will not be accepted no matter what, we want it to be very clear what is training and what is not. The point in awarding the extra point is to give you a bit of a reward for drawing in the human, humans are hard! So free jumping only counts if handler is shown on the ground etc.

:bulletpurple: New! Dragon tack images: +1 point
By +1 we mean you add it to the base scoring. So full body art with dragon tack and a bg is 2 +1 = 3 points. So if you have a show entry that also has dragon tack you will now receive +2 for that piece.
For dragon tack it must be full body, headshots with dragon tack unfortunately don’t count. The goal in giving the extra point is to, again, reward you for drawing in the full tack.

:bulletpurple: Show Placings:

Special show titles: Champion, Reserve Champion, Best in Show, Judge’s Choice etc: +1 point

1st place: +3 points

2nd place: +2 points

3rd place: +1 point

4th place or lower: +0.5 point

Must be officially placed. If you don’t know the exact placing you don’t get the points! Import hunt and major official events like dragon hunts etc count the same as a normal show. If you’re ever unsure whether a group contest counts for show points please feel free to ask!

:bulletpurple: Animations: +2 points (base)
Example: Full body art with no background + animated = 3 points
If the horse is shown more than once on a page each separate image of the horse must be animated in some way. If only the background is animated that is +2 overall for the entire image.
Also! If your animation is a background animation you may not just copy and paste the same thing animated into each image. Think of this like the line rules, if you use it once that’s the only time it counts. (This doesn’t mean you can’t have all your horses blink, just don’t copy paste things!)
New! Animations are now divided into three categories and give points accordingly.
Simple: +2 (e.x blink, ear flick)
Medium Complexity: +4 (e.x mane/tail moving in combination with blink)
Complex: +8 - 15. Admin discretion will be relied on at this point to determine which level; if it becomes a point of contention this will be changed to a flat number. (e.x movement cycles)

:bulletpurple: Statues/Plushies:
These are relatively new so we’re still working out the kinks here!
- If this is a model you purchased and painted to look like your horse (details matter here guys, we need to be able to tell it’s your horse): 1
- If this is a basic horse sculpture created and painted to look like your horse: 4
- If this is a detailed sculpture created and painted to look like your horse: 8
- If this is a basic plushie created to look like your horse: 4
- If this is a complex detailed plushie created to look like your horse: 8

:bulletpurple: Stories:
This section is also new so we’re still working it out. Be patient with us while we make sure everything works like it should.
The story must directly relate to your horse in some way. Character building is totally ok! We just don’t want to see 5 paragraphs with your humans or anthro-badgers discussing why toast is amazing and then a bit of “and Mary Sue glanced out to see Mr. Fish training in the yard” at the end.
- 250-499 words: +1
- 500 words + 2
- 1,000 words: +3 
- 1,500 words: +4 
- 2,000 words: +5 
- 3,000 words: + 8
- 3,500 words and up: +12 - 15. Admin discretion will be relied on at this point to determine which level; if it becomes a point of contention this will be changed to a flat number.

Note! If another Nordanner is included in the story (Has to be more than just “Gold was there” and I will be scanning to check this.) that horse can earn anywhere from +1 - 10 points towards their kaaring as well depending on overall length and involvement.

:bulletpurple: Kaaring Farms
Yes, we all know kaaring farms and we’ve seen them become much more prevalent lately.
So! No low-quality kaaring farms will be allowed. Images must be scanned or photographed properly, if horses cannot be made out clearly it doesn't count, this means markings must be clear and the horse must be large enough to make out. If there are a few images on a page they need to at least be colored. We do not want to see pages of uncolored images with a few sketchy trainers. If we believe an image to be a kaaring farm and we have it confirmed by another admin either points will be deducted or it simply will not count towards kaaring.
We know you want to get your horses to the next level quickly but the point is to reward you for the work it takes to get there, not reward you for creating 20 images with a bunch of blinking headshots. We love you guys but it’s just gotten a bit out of hand.

:bulletpurple: Lineage Points:
Please note! In order to get points for lineage the horse must be officially registered as Quality/Excellent/Supreme Blood with the group in order to count for points. They may have enough kaaring but if they’re not marked on either the Kaaring Journal or their ID list then it doesn’t count. Example: 675 Elephantboots <- no stars or trophies, not registered. *****675 Elephantboots <- 5 stars, registered as Quality Blood etc.

- Purebred offspring reaching “Quality Blood” status: 2 points
- Purebred offspring reaching “Excellent Blood” status: 3 points
- Purebred offspring reaching “Supreme Blood” status: 4 points
Includes direct offspring, great grand offsprings etc.

- Each parent in lineage with “Quality Blood” status: 2 points
- Each parent in lineage with “Excellent Blood” status: 3 points
- Each parent in lineage with “Supreme Blood” status: 4 points
Example: Sire, dam and grand sire being quality blood would earn the foal 6 points.

Attention! There is now a cap on how much kaaring your horse can earn from lineage, that cap is 100 kaaring points.

:bulletpurple: Photo backgrounds, premade lineart and other types of stock made by you or others: 0 points.

Art rules:
Both digital and traditional art are welcome.

No premade lineart, no re-using old lineart. If you use a set of lines in one image you may not reuse it in another, this applies to registration images as well.

Backgrounds may NOT be photo, art stock, or reused to count for points.

Shading is not a demand.

Each image only counts once!

Photomanipulations do not count for any points.

Also! If you draw your horse’s ref, and then use that same ref to design the tack, you can only count that image once, not twice, since you are re-using the reference.  

Art made by others:
Art made by others count as much as art made by yourself, whether it’s a gift or purchased images.

Same rules are applied to this art in order for it to count though, just as when you draw it yourself.

When a Nordanner is sold all points are transferred to the new owner.

Import and foal designs cannot be counted towards kaaring since they are made with lineart.

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The Levels

:star: 15 points

:star::star: 30 points

:star::star::star: 45 points

:star::star::star::star: 60 points

:star::star::star::star::star: 75 – Horse can use the group Best Mare/Best stallion ribbon and title.

:trophy: 200 points – Horse is awarded 10 extra free breedings mutation or natural and the title Excellent Blood.

:trophy::trophy: 400 points – Horse is titled Supreme Blood. Natural Nordanners are awarded unlimited breedings. However 100 of the kaaring must be done by the owners themselves. Mutation horses that have reached 400 with art kaaring alone are awarded new potions that can be found here - Kaaring Unlocked Potions List

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How to register as Quality / Excellent / Supreme Blood
Also known as: A guide on how to not make Shadow go crazy.

To register the horse at the right kaaring level you must:

1. Send in a NOTE to the Nordanner group.
2. Title the note the level you are hoping to the register the horse at. Example: “Quality Nordanner” “Excellent Nordanner” etc.
3. Include a link to the horse’s reference and kaaring journal.
4. List all valid art points in a journal using thumbnails. (You may also use st.ash documents if you’d rather not take up journals. And! Should thumbnails just not work for you or not be a feasible option then please make sure your links are named and properly listed. I will not accept just over and over again. Make sure you tell me this though!)
5. List all valid lineage by listing the ID number and name or just the ID number and how much you’re counting it for (+2 / +3).
6. Please do not list the entire lineage for the horse. I only need the ones that you are counting as QB or above. It’s much easier not to have to try and look through each line of lineage to see if you put a star next to the horse’s name or not.
7. List all show placings and proof of these placings. Please don’t make me search through multiple pages, just link me to the exact journal/location that shows the placings for that class/show.
8. You all would be amazing and really streamline the kaaring process if you can include the totals for each section. It’s so wonderful to not have to guess how much you’re counting an image or group of images for. This way if we have a discrepancy I can figure out why.
9. To make sure I can handle multiple notes in one day I’m going to ask you guys to limit notes to 4 Nordanners (4 checks). However! There is an exception to this, Excellent and Supreme Blood checks need to be in their own notes. The reasons I’m asking for this rule to be followed is so I can get to more than 1 note per night.
10. When checked and accepted (or if there are problems) you will get a reply.
11. Horse is NOT Quality/Excellent/Supreme Blood before it has been accepted by the kaaring admin!

Some credit goes to :iconharpg-aha: and :iconh-e-w-a: for the idea of a credit system!

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Here is a quick example of how to count out your horse’s kaaring using part of the kaaring from ShadowRaven1’s horse Peaches.
Note! This is just one of the ways to properly organize your kaaring. There are several other methods that I have come across and that work just as well. If you’re ever curious on how to set up your journal/st.ash etc please feel free to send me a note on my account, I am always willing to help.

Registration picture: +1
1312 Peaches And Cream by ShadowRaven1

Headshots, colored: +0.5
1312 Peach HS by Absolute-CheeseFace

Full body, colored, no or plain backgrounds: +1

Full body, colored, painted backgrounds: +2
Peach Grove by ShadowRaven1
Purebred offspring reaching "Quality Blood" status: +4
1729 Soeia's Mermista
4470 Surrender the Moment
Each parent in lineage with "Excellent Blood" status: +3
461 KS Going Spotty

Total Points: 11.5

Add a Comment:
Tattered-Dreams Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Just checking, but is the kaaring points listed here for parents in lineage outdated? As of the new lineage system, I think the points all got bumped up one, so +3 for Quality parent and so on?
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
that's right!
Tattered-Dreams Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
wildly-unaware Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2017  Student General Artist
Hey I have a question about a Nordanner I recently purchased - 5107 Reckless Serenade
He is registered as Excellent blood but I can't find more than maybe 7 points worth of art and I was just wondering how I would count this if he has already been registered as EB? (I'm just guessing that a lot of art has been removed) Will I count the extras I have now as add ons to 200 kaaring? Same with lineage, how will I count it or will I just keep lineage as have been counted within the 200 points?
Thank you! :heart:
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Jun 28, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
any new kaaring will be counted as 'new' and cannot be stacked on what his previous total could have been
he won't lose his EB title, but if you wish to work him to higher levels you'll have to start from what you have now

lineage will be under the new system, but that will still be to a maximum of 100 points from lineage

hope this helped a bit!
wildly-unaware Featured By Owner Jun 28, 2017  Student General Artist
No prob that sounds about right, thank you for the clear up! :D
toteczious Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
-What If I make comics? Like one page/deviation got so many images and stories? How can I calculate this?
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Jun 21, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
it would be calculated per image of the comic, so long as it doesn't look too crammed or like a kaaring farm you should be alright!
toteczious Featured By Owner Jun 22, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
Okay. Then... Can my Nordanners do some aerial flight for strength trial? Some of my Nordanners have pegasus wings.
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Jun 24, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
that would be absolutely fine!!
Tattered-Dreams Featured By Owner Jun 11, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Hi :)  a couple more questions - (I seem to single-handedly be filling up your comment section) :D

1. Will there ever be kaaring points for drawing a Familiar? (I figure their own, individual perks take the plce of kaaring, but wanted to check all the same ^^)
2. For the Dragon tack point, does the horse have to be fully grown/actually wearing their tack? Is it possible to get the point if they're not actually wearing it, but a full set is drawn? (for a context - I'd like to eventually draw Heaven being fitted for a set by a 'Dragon armouring professional' XD, and wonder if drawing her in his shop/forge, with articles around would earn the point).

Thank you!
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Jun 21, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
not sure about the familiar points, as drawings including them will probably go towards their trust with the horse they are bonded to

I would be alright with that idea of having the armour around the horse, so long as the tack doesn't look unrecognisable c:
Tattered-Dreams Featured By Owner Jun 21, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I assumed so.

And I will do my best to make it look recognisable :) I'll run it by you for checking when the time comes to be sure.

Thank you so much for the response :)
Tattered-Dreams Featured By Owner May 2, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sorry, another question :)

I would like to know how you'd rule the animation in this if possible? A Little Bonding

- The whole image is shaded, including the 6 unique frames in the 30 frame pattern and I've never actually animated before beyond fade ins/flashes. I don't know if you consider that when judging complexity, but as I saw it as a movement cycle I'd really like to get a ruling from you gurus on it. Many thanks!
RoseOaks Featured By Owner May 5, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
this piece is a medium complexity animation by our standards and so would get 4 points for the animation c:
Tattered-Dreams Featured By Owner May 5, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Awesome; thanks so much! :)
Tattered-Dreams Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Could someone tell me how many points this would be worth, please?

Birthday Blanket

I'm thinking partial body?, but there doesn't seem to be a painted background point allowance that goes with that. Help much appreciated :)
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
Hi! because I can see a little over 50% of the horse I'd give you the full body point, which also includes the background point. so 2 points for you!!

partial body pieces don't currently gain a point for background, no matter the effort that has gone into it I'm afraid :c
Tattered-Dreams Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Oh, thank you so much!

And that's a shame, but thanks for letting me know so I'm not caught out in the future :)
z0mbiekid Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2017
"Show entries OR training images OR Dragon tack images: +1 point"
Will those ever get separated out? Because I kind of feel like the point should be for the effort put in, so it seems a little unfair that a drawing with full dragon tack and a rider will be worth the same amount as a bare horse entered into a liberty show
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
what's happened here!
has your question been answered! :eyes:
z0mbiekid Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2017
Definitely pleased with this update though, but still think it should be separated further
z0mbiekid Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2017
Well it's a good start for sure, but training and show should still be separated for my reasons given before - a horse fully tacked and shown with rider should be worth at least 1 point more than a bare liberty entry!
CopperRidge Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2017  Hobbyist
Would the placing's from the HARPG-ShowCircuit count for kaarring if no piece of art was done for the placing? Or does there need to be an art piece to go with the placing to be counted for kaarring?
bopsie Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
Okay, so what about head shots with two other horses in the image plus a background?
nachtmahre Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2017  Professional Interface Designer
It would only be .5 kaaring for each horse, assuming all 3 are headshots.
Backgrounds do not give an added bonus for headshot drawings.
bopsie Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
Okay, well not uploading it till I can make a story then (That way I'll have very few .5's, math's not my thing)
Eleanor-T Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I have a question. Not sure if this was asked before.

I bought a horse from someone who had only drawn the reference. I drew a new reference, found here. Will the old reference count as registration image or can I count it as a full body?
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
it would count as 1 point, for full body without background c:
Eleanor-T Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
okay thanks ^^
Tattered-Dreams Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
A curious question, if someone could help?

Could the weaning of a young foal be considered as training? If so, I realise that you only count an image as training if a handler is visible, so Heaven's actual 'weaning' image wouldn't count (being as she's drawn with other weanlings), but could I possibly count the image done of her saying goodbye to her mother, which does feature handlers?

This is the image, if it helps in any way: This is Where I Leave You

Thank you :)
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
Hi! I would count the one linked here as a training image.
But more due to there being handlers present who are working with the foal than the idea that the foal is being 'trained' to be weaned. c:
Tattered-Dreams Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah, I wasn't sure if the concept of weaning was viewed as training. No worries - I'll count it as a training image because she's standing tied/being groomed instead :) Thanks for clarifying!
Tobuscusfangirl16 Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2016  Student General Artist
Hi, some ones having me draw there Nord for them, I use stock photos(I always give links and credit!) Is it ok if I use them? They need 15 Kaarings worth of art. I just wanna find things out first ebfore getting started :)

sorry if I got anything wrong! I'm not in the Nordanner group.
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
you may of course use stock images as references c:
Tobuscusfangirl16 Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2016  Student General Artist
ok :) Don't want to do something and then me and the person doing the trade can't get points out of it :)
Thanks ^^
MistyofSunrise Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
Question about shows: do you consider "personal harpg" events (not public shows) as counting for points, particularly in regards to placing? (obviously not just someone saying "my horse won 1st place" ;) but with in a system of showing.)

I use the following skill + effort + RNG system for career building/storyline events in my stable.
 SVI Modified Training System
  (first two parts detailed here ^^ - "Stat system" and "Personal harpg events")

Examples (non-Nordanners) of what my personal harpg event looks like with this system:
> Devie :: Tournai Dressage - 3rd
> Elias :: Abernant Stakes - 3rd
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
hi! I don't think we've ever had anyone ask this question before!

Your system seems well thought out and is easy to understand c:
I just wonder how easy it would be to police it. Normal shows are pretty quick and easy for kaaring admins to track down, find the results and the assign quickly. But your system would involve us having to check your maths too for how you worked out your placing.

I would understand a system where you do your career system to build your characters, but you could enter them into an RNG show to work out their placing, maybe treating that as the 'warm up' for your system, but we use the RNG results for the placing you can put towards kaaring points. How would something like that sound?

The two pieces you linked would get the point for trainer as opposed to the show entry point anyway at the moment.
MistyofSunrise Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
A few thoughts to counter your suggestions... (Bare with me ;))

- It seems you are saying an effort system would need more scrutiny then a RNG system? I'm not sure why that would be though? Often people enter their own RNG shows, in essence awarding themselves placings with no proof or policing required. All of the scoring for my system is publicly listed on the entry (I could link the judging matrix to each placing if that would help?).

- No HARPG show that I'm aware of allows an entry to be used twice. So I can't enter it in an RNG show if it already has a placing (nor would I want to as that completely misses the point of an effort based system and the two placings are unlikely to match.)
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
It's not so much that we mind entering your own shows, I'm aware that people could re-roll to get their horses to place higher xD but normally it's pretty easy to just follow the results and see a screenshot to prove the placings via a RNG. With your system we'd have to check through your maths using your system, which wouldn't be too bad but it would add on more time to a check and if we found an error or didn't think a piece should be awarded a certain number of points, I'm not sure how easy that is for you to change or what it affects? Whereas if someone has just typed in the wrong placing on a kaaring journal all that changes is their total number of kaaring points, it doesn't affect their character progression. 

I understand where you're coming from with this, and I hadn't fully realised your system is seen as a 'show' to them.
MistyofSunrise Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
*comes back months later to finally reply ;p *

I guess I'm not understanding your logic still - it doesn't seem consistent in application. (Perhaps another admin could weigh in? Not sure if another set of eyes on the situation or way of expressing the group policy might help me understand better. ^^; )

Saying that it is because you can't prove I didn't cheat, when its all concrete and layed out right there seems a bit odd to me. You keep coming back to how RNG shows are more ethical and easier to prove as valid. When in fact no RNG shows that I'm aware of have such documentation and you are left just assuming it is so with no proof... (Your explanation also seems to imply that Nordy admins have to approve the judging on all effort shows, and contact the show host if you felt the judging wasn't fair?)

Regardless, if the group policy is simply "no Personal Harpg Events" then I can abide by that. :) I'm just confused by the above explanation.
newvoh Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
does 'Honorable Mention' count under the 'special show title' ?
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
it doesn't at this time, only titles like Champion, Reserve Champion, Best in Show or Judge’s Choice. 
having an honorable mention is usually because the judge wants to highlight the entry to other participants, even though it didn't place c:
newvoh Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
alright (: thank you for clarifying ^-^
nachtmahre Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2016  Professional Interface Designer
Another question |D
What complexity level would this be considered as? . : Flower Romance : .
Looking at just one horse instead of the two together, would just a leg movement constitute as medium? Or just a head movement?
Sorry, just trying to find out what the threshold between simple and medium is :lmao: Because simple blinks can be so boring
squishyhammy Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2016  Student Traditional Artist
I personally would consider this as 4 kaaring, but it really is up to each admins discretion! 
Doodeedoodah Featured By Owner Nov 1, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Do we send in a note for each star gained? And all of the star levels are considered quality blood?
RoseOaks Featured By Owner Nov 1, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
Hi! you are more then welcome to send in a note as you reach each level because then it allows you to use the pretty ribbons associated with that level.
for example:
if you registered your horse 1* but it now has 4* worth of kaaring, you couldn't use the 2*, 3* or 4* ribbon until a kaaring check is performed.
once registered, you could use all those ribbons c:

at 5* your horse also has the title of Best Mare/ Stallion along with the 5* ribbon
Doodeedoodah Featured By Owner Nov 1, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
ah okay thanks!
HorseAdict Featured By Owner Oct 31, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
so if you had a picture with a headshot but had a background to it would it still count as 0.5? sorry im new to the group.... sigh…
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